View Poll Results: Do Clerics "Need" or just "Want" Invis as a castable spell

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • I think we NEED it

    14 29.79%
  • I just "WANT" it

    5 10.64%
  • /shrug game is easy enough, potions are fine

    21 44.68%
  • I want it because everyone else has it, and it isn't game breaking to give it to clerics

    2 4.26%
  • we should have it because we are casters

    3 6.38%
  • who cares

    2 4.26%
  • other

    0 0%
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Thread: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,895

    Default Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    I made this thread to leave Lluianae "AA" thread open.

    Please discuss here instead.

    Thank you!

    Keyera
    105 cleric
    Undivided Faith
    Drinal




    Sprinting over the fields, swinging a mighty hammer, cometh Keyera! And she gives a bloodthirsty roar:

    "I'm going to bludgeon you into the stuff of nightmares!"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,895

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    as i mentioned before, to me self invis isn't needed. if anything it would be something i "want". but i don't want it badley enough to make an issue out of it. there are other areas that i think would benifit clerics more. the devs already KNOW alot of clerics want invis. there is no sense cluttering up, IMO, real issues with that old one.

    reasons i don't think we need invis:

    travel is now trivial

    i think that is the bigest reason. they have already made it so we can get accros the world in minutes. remember traveling to LOIO at lvl 20..lets say start from..god i forget the name OMG!! ummm... ro...lets just say the "docks" you jump on a raft and ride it to one zone, then try get past meaines guarding the docks to another raft....then ride that one to The overthere..another very nasty place at lvl 20....you have to get off the boat because you don't dare ride it to the docks.. see invis mobs, err undead... then run across the entire zone, all with deep red con mobs and run to some woods..WW...then half way accross that zone with MORE very mean mobs. then whew, finaly in LOIO, when you got to the windmill it felt like an epic journey. now don't even think about DYING OMG.

    there was another way tot get there as well, and that involved getting to FV, but thats another story.

    that was traveling. that was when invis would of ment something... now it is nothing, IMO

    well is dinner time, got to go!

    Keyera
    105 cleric
    Undivided Faith
    Drinal




    Sprinting over the fields, swinging a mighty hammer, cometh Keyera! And she gives a bloodthirsty roar:

    "I'm going to bludgeon you into the stuff of nightmares!"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    Ok. Can I vote "other"?

    There are shades of grey between "want" and "need".

    Need it, as in we couldn't possibly live without it? Of course not.

    Want it, as in, it's a perk I want for no reason other than I want it? I think that isn't quite fair either.

    I don't think there is a doubt that there is a need for invis sometimes. That is why we carry potions or sometimes items. So it's more about HOW to invis. Yes, I WANT (not NEED) an invis spell (and I'm fine with self only invis), because it's very beneficial, most classes have it already, and after all these years I've still never heard any convincing argument why we shouldn't get it.

    Obviously invis itself isn't the problem, seeing how many classes have it, so it's the combination cleric+invis that is the problem and I still don't know why. Would it be gamebreaking or unbalancing? I don't believe so, maybe some will feel differently but I don't think I've ever seen anyone state such, let alone present any arguments to support that.

    If invis was the exception, it would be fair to ask, "why should clerics get invis?". However, invis is the norm and clerics are the exception, so the question should be, "why shouldn't clerics get invis too?". And again, if there is any good reason other than pure stubborness I haven't heard it yet.
    Miriella
    75 Cleric of Innoruuk
    Cazic Thule

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    Btw, I suppose the option "I want it because everyone else has it" would seem to match my argument best but I don't feel that really expresses my standpoint, not even close really.

    I want it because invis is often needed, and it would save the cost and inconvenience of using stacks of potions, having to grab potions before running somewhere naked, the risk of the dreaded "you can't drink anymore potions" (don't remember the exact text), and because everyone else has it I don't understand why it would be so gamebreaking to give it to clerics too.

    So not really, I want it just because everyone else has it and I want it too.
    Miriella
    75 Cleric of Innoruuk
    Cazic Thule

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    there is no sense cluttering up, IMO, real issues with that old one.
    But it's only an old issue because it has been ignored all these years. Would it be incredibly complicated to implement? Of course not. After all the effect already exists. I would really like to hear, just for the sake of argument, an estimate from the devs how long it would take. I bet a dev could do it in less than a day if they wanted to.
    there was another way tot get there as well, and that involved getting to FV, but thats another story.
    Exactly. Of course I travelled to the OT without a problem - I'm a dark elf. But as a good aligned cleric, why didn't you just go to FV? And from FV to LOIO was pretty fast and easy as I recall. However, I certainly won't disagree that invis was useful on Kunark. But I ran around Kunark without invis a lot and it wasn't a big problem. In fact I felt a lot more comfortable on my cleric without invis, than on my enchanter with invis.

    But mobs started hitting harder, and worse, running faster. Running around GoD without invis was pretty much suicidal.

    Now I'll admit that I don't know the newer expansion zones yet, but if at 70 I were to join, say, a WoS or MPG group, I don't think running across NC without invis would be a good idea. Yes I know, guildhall portals, but you may still have to run some distance from there, and besides not everyone is in a guild - and there can be very valid reasons for that.

    I'm glad to hear though that at 80, travel has become trivial. Some things in EQ have always gone in cycles

    That reminds me of running through Kod`Taz with trains from hell though...... could tell some cool stories about that, maybe I will later.
    Last edited by Miriella; 02-07-2008 at 01:00 AM.
    Miriella
    75 Cleric of Innoruuk
    Cazic Thule

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,895

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    ok, i phrased it wrong..

    we all agree Invis is needed...but is it needed for us to have it as a spell. are potions enough. thats what i ment..let me see if i can edit ;-)

    Keyera
    105 cleric
    Undivided Faith
    Drinal




    Sprinting over the fields, swinging a mighty hammer, cometh Keyera! And she gives a bloodthirsty roar:

    "I'm going to bludgeon you into the stuff of nightmares!"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,895

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    edit worked ;-P

    Keyera
    105 cleric
    Undivided Faith
    Drinal




    Sprinting over the fields, swinging a mighty hammer, cometh Keyera! And she gives a bloodthirsty roar:

    "I'm going to bludgeon you into the stuff of nightmares!"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    235

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    I just want more feed back. i used cleric invis as an example because its something a lot of clerics want. I aleast want to know eq devs are taking feed back on things we say.Do we have a voice in the game at all . I guess there the main issues is are things we say given any credit at all

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    553

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    I don't think we need a regular Invis spell, Leave that to the intelligence casters. We should have a group IVU(ITU) that lasts 10 minutes though and think by level 80 we should have been given it.

    Edit: Oops Llu I forgot about that =) being that I'm semi-retired, don't have the latest expansion and only lvl 75 LOL ty
    Last edited by prosia; 02-07-2008 at 01:47 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    234

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    We did get a group fixed IvU spell, but it doesn't start off at 10mins.

    rk1 = 6 mins, rk2 = 8 mins, rk3 = 10 mins

    Fool the Fallen, level 77

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    540

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    I'm a quiet poster in that I don't make waves.

    But, until the day we get it, to me invis should always at least be on our list of desires. Why?
    - Because with some things only repeated visibility of an issue eventually gets it done and over time things change, dev's change, and things that once were in game for 6-8+ years can suddenly be changed without warning.

    Look at pet pulling changed, complete heal changed, group complete heal changed, ac buffs finally added as just a small handful of examples.

    A lot of clerics would like it, and if we don't at least mention it as an issue clerics do want looked at, how else does it get raised and kept in their minds. It's a self fullfilling prophecy to say don't talk about it because it will never happen.

    So at the very least it should always be on our list of concerns.

    Crystilla
    EQ Round Table Member
    Devoted Brell serving wench
    Valorguard / Erollisi Marr server

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    Great point Crystilla
    Last edited by Cunyar; 02-07-2008 at 08:48 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    This discussion has been brought up so many times that if you tried a forum search for "cleric invis" it would probably crash the server.

    Sometimes I wish I could take people back in the Way-Back machine and show them just how it used to be. Before Guild ports, before corpse summons, before PoK, before cloudy potions, even before Run Speed AAs. Had some of you been around then, you would realize how much rejoice there was in the cleric community when Cloudy Potions became available to us.

    Before vendor offered Cloudy Potions, this was a very valid concern. But now that potions are readily available, we're severely beating a dead horse in my opinion. Now, I may be going off some older facts (been about a year since I have played), but countering with potion costs being a concern shouldn't even come into play. I could sit in PoK and buff for less than an hour and make more than enough to cover a couple of stacks of potions.

    Yes, the potion duration is random, and sometimes it wears off at the most inopportune time. We've all had it happen. Yes it sucks. Audio triggers will warn you of this every time, and provide you with enough time to click another potion. The only thing audio triggers won't prevent is running into a see-invis mob.

    If you really want a fixed duration invis, run up to the nearest 67+ mage and ask them if they would be nice enough to create you a Sphere of Air, a 5 charge fixed 10 minute duration invis clicky. If I recall correctly, these were also affected by extended buff focus as well, so you have the potential for a nice, long duration invis.

    Corpse running is a part of the game, and it's meant to be a challenge. Again, way back in the day, it really was a challenge to get your corpse back. Even actually getting to the wipe was terrible, as if it were pre epic 1.0, not only did you have to have enough mana to cast rez and buff each party member, you still had to rez and buff yourself, then med (VERY SLOWLY...not this zipety-do-dah OOC med) to full.

    Nowdays, if you don't feel up to running back naked, summon and rez, med for a minute or two, and run back fully equipped with full mana, clicking your invis potions whenever they wear off.

    Keyera, I belive the OT raft took off from the Oasis, but could be one of the Ro's too. Foggy memory

    Now, I am going to go sit in the corner, staring at my spell book for 35 levels for a few hours, then go fall off the Butcherblock boat.

    /oldtimerrant off
    EQ
    Jornam
    75 Cleric

    WoW
    Vostagg
    70 Warrior

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    Ahhh, the, "When I was a kid, I walked to school in ten feet of ice and snow everyday....ONE WAY!", arguement. Gotta love it =p

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    Although a very valid argument. Why make the game more dumbed down than it already is. Camp an invis clicky, by pots or make friends with a ranger/druid. IMO we don't need this conversation to interrupt the development of our class.

    KiTT

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