View Poll Results: Do Clerics "Need" or just "Want" Invis as a castable spell

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • I think we NEED it

    14 29.79%
  • I just "WANT" it

    5 10.64%
  • /shrug game is easy enough, potions are fine

    21 44.68%
  • I want it because everyone else has it, and it isn't game breaking to give it to clerics

    2 4.26%
  • we should have it because we are casters

    3 6.38%
  • who cares

    2 4.26%
  • other

    0 0%
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Thread: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    Sometimes I wish I could take people back in the Way-Back machine and show them just how it used to be. Before Guild ports, before corpse summons, before PoK, before cloudy potions, even before Run Speed AAs. Had some of you been around then, you would realize how much rejoice there was in the cleric community when Cloudy Potions became available to us.
    And again, I played almost since day one, I think May or so, 1999. And I played a lot until I started turning away from EQ in 2004. I think I know as much about old school EQ as anyone, so I'm not really accepting this argument, at least not as applicable to me.

    edit: I've been playing since before Brell existed (yes I came from Brell), I remember Brell being opened several months after I started.
    Miriella
    75 Cleric of Innoruuk
    Cazic Thule

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,895

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    great point crystilla, however, to me, i felt that invis was getting us away from "needed" issues other than nice to have, or wanted issues in the other thread. it was mentioned, they can see it, lets go back to that thread and come up with more great, new ideas ;-)

    Keyera
    105 cleric
    Undivided Faith
    Drinal




    Sprinting over the fields, swinging a mighty hammer, cometh Keyera! And she gives a bloodthirsty roar:

    "I'm going to bludgeon you into the stuff of nightmares!"

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    Posting in a bit of a hurry, but I'd just like to add that a LOT has changed in 9 years. Maybe soul binders should be taken out of the game? And PoK portals? And corpse summoning? Maybe the cleric epic even? After all those are major changes that made the game a lot easier than old school EQ; if there is no place for cleric invis because of this reason then maybe these things shouldn't have been added either?
    Miriella
    75 Cleric of Innoruuk
    Cazic Thule

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    Well, first of all, I never said there wasn't a place for those changes in EQ. In fact, I am very greatful for the vast majortiy of them. I was just pointing out there are many different options as far as corpse retreival or travel goes. I didn't even mention Fellowships or mounts.

    As far as Cleric invis, we can invis...we just don't have it in our spell book. As I pointed out, we even have access to fixed duration invis, but again, we don't have it in our spell book. There are a lot of items out there that have an invis clicky effect. Granted, the majority have a cast time of 8 or 10, but they're out there. I'd take an instant click cloudy over that any day.

    As you stated, a lot has changed in 9 years. But one thing has not...clerics being able to have invis in their spell books. Even though it has been asked for repeatedly, the devs have not budged. I am begining to get the feeling that they won't. The main reason for this, I think, is because there are other options available out there for us. Are they the very best we could ask for? Maybe not, but I can live with that.

    I can tell that you feel very strongly about this issue. Is it because of the cost? Because it is random duration, even though we get warned it's wearing off? Is there a zone that is extremely populated with see-invis mobs? Well...even fixed duration invis won't help with that. What I'm trying to get at is why are you so upset that for 9 years we haven't had invis in our spell book, and why is it such a big deal to you? I am open to discussion on this. You have my ear. Let me know your reasons.
    Last edited by jornam; 02-07-2008 at 01:59 PM.
    EQ
    Jornam
    75 Cleric

    WoW
    Vostagg
    70 Warrior

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    540

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    I'm not saying it's a top issue or medium issue - but on an 'issue' list it should still be there as a desire for us.
    - Can look at it this way. Low priority it. Keep it on list.
    - It indicates a desire but shows we realize it's lower priority for them/devs. Not having it at all means there is no interest.

    (And I've played non-stop since Aug 2001 with no breaks longer than 2 weeks off which was only for my 10th wedding anniversary. I'm also married to a mage who plays as much as I do. Just to stop that particular line).

    But like I mentioned, doesn't have to be made anything close to a 'high' desire.

    Crystilla
    EQ Round Table Member
    Devoted Brell serving wench
    Valorguard / Erollisi Marr server

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    129

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    I dont need it and have never even given a self invis of some sort a second thought. Potions work great and have saved me a few times from a messy end.

    /bow

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    235

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    I Have stated in this post once. Its a want sure, but if they wont even move a inch on something as small as cleric invis , whats the chance there going to lisen to other things we want? That is mypoint

















    sorry i changed it a smige to what i think you ment to type ;-)
    Last edited by Keyera; 02-07-2008 at 11:30 PM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    I can tell that you feel very strongly about this issue. Is it because of the cost? Because it is random duration, even though we get warned it's wearing off? Is there a zone that is extremely populated with see-invis mobs? Well...even fixed duration invis won't help with that. What I'm trying to get at is why are you so upset that for 9 years we haven't had invis in our spell book, and why is it such a big deal to you? I am open to discussion on this. You have my ear. Let me know your reasons.
    With all due respect, but I feel I have already stated my reasons. The fact that you don't agree doesn't mean I didn't. I somewhat resent terms like "upset" and "big deal". I'm not upset. And if I've posted about it several times now, it's because of all the posts that question why we ask for this.

    Corpse running is a part of the game, and it's meant to be a challenge. Again, way back in the day, it really was a challenge to get your corpse back. Even actually getting to the wipe was terrible, as if it were pre epic 1.0, not only did you have to have enough mana to cast rez and buff each party member, you still had to rez and buff yourself, then med (VERY SLOWLY...not this zipety-do-dah OOC med) to full.
    Travel is also part of the game. Old school travel used to somewhat risky, but especially very time consuming and inconvenient. Why is it that things like PoK portals and soulbinders are fine, but cleric invis is not hardcore enough?

    You keep hammering on this "back in the day" thing, and again I tell you, I played the same old school EQ as you. Since this seems so important to you, let me stress that some more. I played EQ before any expansions. When you got killed on the boat and your corpse dropped off at the edge of the zone, and there was no corpse summoning. When you fell in the lava in Sol A. When you fell through the floor in Befallen and got killed on the bottom floor. And so on.

    Yes, I played old school EQ too, I know how it was. Want to talk about wipes at the royals in Chardok? I was there. CR in ToV? I was there. In all three wings. Fear and Hate raids? I was there. And I still don't see what that has to do with cleric invis, considering how much else has changed since those days. Like it or not, but this is not the same game we played 9 years ago, and I feel from your remarks that you resent that, but resisting our wish for cleric invis won't bring back those days.

    I agree with this:
    A lot of clerics would like it, and if we don't at least mention it as an issue clerics do want looked at, how else does it get raised and kept in their minds. It's a self fullfilling prophecy to say don't talk about it because it will never happen.
    I people feel discussing this is detrimental to our cause then don't. Focus on what you want instead of what we want. We were asked what we want and this is something some of us want. Why do you object so strongly to it? Would it hurt to add it to the list along with the things you want? Would it hurt you in anyway if the devs actually (and quite unexpectedly, I'll admit), gave us invis?

    In closing, I don't see why I need to keep justifying that I would like cleric invis, and I think we're starting to go in circles, so I will stop trying to defend my position.
    Miriella
    75 Cleric of Innoruuk
    Cazic Thule

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,895

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    Miriella said in post #23 :


    Travel is also part of the game. Old school travel used to somewhat risky, but especially very time consuming and inconvenient. Why is it that things like PoK portals and soulbinders are fine, but cleric invis is not hardcore enough?
    i think we keep mentioning the past because they already made it easy for EVERYONE. that is the point. fine, give the last little thing that makes travel in the least bit dificult and uncertain. might as well give warriors: "warriors stealth AA" they should get it because roges can SoS

    and of course monks should get "now you see me now you don't aa" because they are entltled to it.

    ;-P

    don't take that wrong please. it is just over the years they took so much of the "risk" out of the game already. "dumbed" it down. it isn't just invis. i was mad they put in the PoK books even ;-P

    the game is SOOO easy now. my god, you can pay and poof your body falls at your feet? whats next? /petition to have your caracter created fully geared and AA so you can "experiance the end game?" err wait, you can do that on the test server i think....


    fear raid? what fear......

    :-(

    Keyera
    105 cleric
    Undivided Faith
    Drinal




    Sprinting over the fields, swinging a mighty hammer, cometh Keyera! And she gives a bloodthirsty roar:

    "I'm going to bludgeon you into the stuff of nightmares!"

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    don't take that wrong please. it is just over the years they took so much of the "risk" out of the game already. "dumbed" it down. it isn't just invis. i was mad they put in the PoK books even ;-P
    You're doing the same thing as Jornam; objecting to something that would only remove a long standing annoyance / inconvenience without really changing the game balance, just because you don't like how easy the game has become. You're just doing it more nicely =p

    My first fear raid:
    "OMG you're on, pleeeeeeeease come to Fear, I'm rezzing this whole pile of corpses and it takes FOREVER without clarity!!!!". Yeah that was when I was playing my enchanter.

    I've done Fear soooo often, on my enchanter, as pull enchanter, AoE raids, portal breaks...

    On my cleric lots of times too. Once we went in with 2 groups the evening before and pretty much cleared everything between the portal and the safe spot. When I was leading I started doing portal breaks just because having people run in in advance was such a pita; you always had people who missed the run in, and others who got themselves killed and you couldn't find their corpse because they had run the wrong way.

    Hate, did that so many times too... getting to the second floor the raid seemed like midgets there... Keyan swearing because he was pulling and the mobs ran away from him, the pathing was so bad back then. And of course wipes, yes... trying to camp out... coming back to corpses all around you.

    After they revamped Hate I took a 3 group raid up there to take a look. The enchanter was sick and on autofollow, and I said look I'm not gonna hold because we have only 1/2 a chanter; you plate guys are all on CC. We were fine but Hate just wasn't the same anymore.

    Yes I do remember those days

    You know what was hard? When GoD was just out, doing Ikkinz trials to open up the raids, back when there were at most a few groups on a server that had any chance of surviving in there. And when you wiped in there and no one got out and the necro's FD failed, you ran with Selo's and DA through hunderds of feet of tunnels into a temple full of see invis mobs who hit for more than your naked HP, to the ONE randomly activated out of 3 zone ins, hoping you didn't take a wrong turn somewhere.
    Miriella
    75 Cleric of Innoruuk
    Cazic Thule

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    540

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    <=== is afraid of fear. I'll never go back into that zone as long as I love, not for anyone (scarred for live lol).

    Crystilla
    EQ Round Table Member
    Devoted Brell serving wench
    Valorguard / Erollisi Marr server

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,895

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    all i am doing is stating my opinion of how the game has become. if they keep giving everything that makes the game "hard" there will be nothing left and we may as well give in and go to wow.

    ahh fear...going in in full summond mage gear!! /rawr

    hate raids...

    ok, here we go!! poof you arrive just to die instantly. wait hours and hours to try beg uber guild001 to come help you get your bodies back... ok, i don't miss that! LOL

    Keyera
    105 cleric
    Undivided Faith
    Drinal




    Sprinting over the fields, swinging a mighty hammer, cometh Keyera! And she gives a bloodthirsty roar:

    "I'm going to bludgeon you into the stuff of nightmares!"

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    Fortunately I never had fatal wipes like that while breaking in, though once we were in combat as soon as the first two groups were up there and it did get pretty tense for a while. But I only did Hate with guilds I knew well.

    wait hours and hours to try beg uber guild001 to come help you get your bodies back... ok, i don't miss that! LOL
    Oh, so you do draw the line somewhere!

    Honestly, I don't know exactly how easy the game has become. I quit during OoW and it certainly wasn't trivial yet back then. Since then I've only been back for short visits, like now.

    So am I the only one who still has Cryptmaster`s Conjuring Stones laying around?
    Miriella
    75 Cleric of Innoruuk
    Cazic Thule

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    235

    Default Re: Do Clerics "Need" Invis or just "want it"

    sorry about spelling iam on smart phone and it sometimes makes post goofy or spelled wrong due to small keys

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: Do Clerics

    sorry about spelling iam on smart phone and it sometimes makes post goofy or spelled wrong due to small keys
    Spelled wrong or not, whatever, but I do agree with you, though I might be in the minority there
    Miriella
    75 Cleric of Innoruuk
    Cazic Thule

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