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Thread: Clerics That have no clue....

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    CH is actually a mistake that Devs had said over and over, they wish they didnt introduce into the game. But to late!!
    Priest Coaidiel Ovhate
    75 Cleric of the Rathe

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    I don't get a lot of time to xp, so I'm still a long way out from Divine Arbitration...

    But it is way up there on my list of things to get!

    But then again... so is Salvage 3!
    Angelsyn Whitewings, Cleric of Tunare for 65 Seasons.
    Grandmistress Smith - 300, Tailor - 297, Fletcher - 57, Jeweler - 200, Brewer - 200, Baker - 196, Fisherwoman - 165, Potter - 158

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    If you are 61+ and have the 9th spell slot buy DivA one. Now. Next. Before Run Speed. You will never regret it.

    That is the -exact- advice given to me by 3 clerics from the top guild on my server. I'm passing it along because they were right. You will not regret buying it, you WILL regret everything you bought before you bought it after you get it. Levels 2 and 3 you can probably wait for, but DivA is a group saver. Almost every time I have used it it's been the difference between "do I use DivA" and "is it safe to use the clicker to rezz the tank mid-battle?"

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    Coaidiel said in post #16 :
    CH is actually a mistake that Devs had said over and over, they wish they didnt introduce into the game. But to late!!
    I don't see how it could be a mistake. Perhaps the level it's received but not the spell itself IMHO. Todays tanks are 10K+. I very frequently work with warriors in pickup DoN groups that have over 11K HP. And when I look at my healing spells I see this:

    Pious remedy 1990 healed for 495 mana

    Pious light 3770 healed for 740 mana

    Pious elixer 1170 per tick healed for 890 mana

    Complete healing 7500 healed for 400 mana

    I don't have ancient hallowed light yet but at least that spell seems like a step in the right direction as it's 4150 healed for 775 mana.

    when a 11K HP tank loses 50% health I have to heal 5.5K to top him off. I could use pious elixer but if he's still getting beat on then it may or may not be fast enough to keep him alive. I could use two Pious lights but then I spent 1480 mana which makes a huge dent in my mana bar. Or I could use one complete healing and have him full health without hardly touching my mana bar. I hardly use any spell other then complete healing on my tanks. Other members are a different story though as I use pious light alot on Bsts, rangers, bezerkers or any other melee class when being hit. I also use pious remedy alot on casters to keep them alive when divine arb is down. I hardly ever use pious elixer though since it has such a high mana cost. I really only use it on named mob pulls to help keep the tank alive long enough for my first complete healing and the slow to land.

    Does my massive use of CH make me a bad cleric? I don't think so. I keep my party alive and keep my mana bar high to limit or even eliminate the need for med breaks.
    Norezferu lvl 72 HE Cleric

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    CH will soon enough be obsolete, Reason for being a mistake, is the unbalancing of it in its time. When CH was introduced into the game, the most ubber tank was 7-8k HP, now Ive healed 16k tanks. Is there an upgrade to CH? no, will there be one? no. Why? because Devs dont want that kind of power in the game again. in fact Rashere believes if it wasnt for CH and our smart minds of CH lines, we would still be fighting in PoP....of course he is just a moron anyway. I believe we'd beat it no matter the way it was set up.

    I have no problem with clerics that use CH as a primary healing role. I did for long time, and still do depending on the content im fighting in. But when you are in content that a mob is hitting a tanks for quads of 2k (group content) CH turns into a burdon more then anything, And the high cost heals can burn a 9k mana pool to nothing if the tank is louzy and takes in more damage then the mob throws at it (low AC/O-D AAs etc)...as new expanssions come out with tougher content, but no upgrade to the CH we'll eventually see it fade away in top end..
    Priest Coaidiel Ovhate
    75 Cleric of the Rathe

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    CH still has its place in my spell bar. It is the most mana efficient heal we have and will have. But I agree to Coaidiel that it is more and more unused.
    First it is much more fun to use the faster heals (even I am used to type chat lines in 10sec ) and one day GoM will fire on heals again the mana efficiency will get higher again for the higher level heals.

    I guess CH wont vanish of my spell bar though.
    Old Continent / Druzzil Ro (Xev)

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    Coaidiel said in post #20 :
    When CH was introduced into the game, the most ubber tank was 7-8k HP
    Sorry about the slight derail, but are you sure tanks had that much back then?
    We are talking stuff pre Kunark, like the warrior BP from PoHate:
    Indicolite Breastplate
    AC+35, Str+15, Dex+15, Sta+15
    --------------------

    DWARF!!

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    Don't get me wrong, theres nothing wrong with using CH. I still use it too. Its just knowing when to use each spell that alot of the newer clerics seem to have a problem with. Notice I said " newer" instead of " higher level". Since MMs even a level 70 cleric can be new, unfortunately, and they end up bypassing lots of important things like knowledge, spells etc.
    Norezforyou I didn't mean at all that CH is useless all . I meant that each situation determines what heal needs to be cast and alot of times, especially at higher levels, theres other heals that are better suited to the task at hand than CHeal. I still use CHeal alot . The cleric I was referring to in the 1st of this thread was only using CH over and over because they gained the last 15 -20 levels by doing nothing but MMs and never updated their spells so CH ended up being the only heal they had to keep the tank up.
    Last edited by 1505; 02-04-2006 at 12:38 PM.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    At the higher end game when clerics have upwards of 8-10k + mana pools theres just better choices than CH at times. What spell to use is a situational determination. One can't say "X spell is the best heal" because that will change as the situation changes. Every heal spell is a good spell when used in the proper situation.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    Gnuen said in post #22 :


    Sorry about the slight derail, but are you sure tanks had that much back then?
    We are talking stuff pre Kunark, like the warrior BP from PoHate:
    Indicolite Breastplate
    AC+35, Str+15, Dex+15, Sta+15
    Err, no in place of "CH" in that quote i meant to say rashere, thats what i get for posting before reading my own.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    Wish I could find a post that was made long time ago, when people was asking for a higher level CH upgrade to 10k, thats what the original CH healed for, It stated in the conversation the whole concept of "complete heal" was actually supose to NOT work during combat (hence the 10 sec cast)..And usually tank was dead before it ever landed.

    Was also in that conversation that Rash said, He feels that CH was a huge mistake, and if it wasnt for people being so dependant on it in lower content, he would simply take it out of the game, But his plans were to create "challenging content" that would make CH lesser to the advantage... Rumor has it thats why GoD was so damn hard to begin with before they redid some things because devs was trying to fix it were it wouldnt be like PoP with the CH lines, and in some cases they achieved that much..
    Priest Coaidiel Ovhate
    75 Cleric of the Rathe

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    Itek said in post #18 :
    If you are 61+ and have the 9th spell slot buy DivA one. Now. Next. Before Run Speed. You will never regret it.

    That is the -exact- advice given to me by 3 clerics from the top guild on my server. I'm passing it along because they were right. You will not regret buying it, you WILL regret everything you bought before you bought it after you get it. Levels 2 and 3 you can probably wait for, but DivA is a group saver. Almost every time I have used it it's been the difference between "do I use DivA" and "is it safe to use the clicker to rezz the tank mid-battle?"
    Actually, if you see my Profile, you'll see I do have a few AAs, but I don't have the 9th spell slot.

    I'm not in a Raiding Guild... in fact, the guild I joined seems to be all but broken up now... with very few people (besides me and 1 or 2 others) ever signing on.

    I've done some work in WoS and, given what I've seen there, DivArb would actually be a detriment.. causing low-health aggro if the tank doesn't have really good control, or a lot of aggro on me due to the group healing aggro.

    I'm not saying it's not a useful and powerful ability... especially if you've got a Paladin Tank who can time their own Group Heal right... but right now it seems a bit lower on my list of priorities.
    Angelsyn Whitewings, Cleric of Tunare for 65 Seasons.
    Grandmistress Smith - 300, Tailor - 297, Fletcher - 57, Jeweler - 200, Brewer - 200, Baker - 196, Fisherwoman - 165, Potter - 158

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    I have a lvl 66 Cleric, and yes i used MM to get some of those levels. However, i still think I am a half decent cleric. I keep my grp alive and rarely seems to run low on mana unless there is simply a bad pull.

    I use Cheal 90 percent of the time, and don't think it will ever leave my spell bar. I keep 1 quick heal, 1 normal heal, 1 grp heal, 1 HoT, and cheal mem'd at all times. I don't have DA yet, as there are other AA's that i want first.

    I much prefer the CH to anything else, do to it's mana efficiency. I have very average gear, and only a 4k Mana pool. When in a grp my Tanks get CH exclusivly, the rest get a normal heal'sof HoT. I genearlly throw a HoT on the tank on incoming just to keep those first few hits while the slow is landing not quite so painful, then my chealing begins. Maybe I have gotten lucky with the tanks i have grp'd with keeping really good aggro, but I die less now from heal aggro then i did in the 50's.

    that is just my 2c, this debate will go on for ever and ever i am sure.

    -Kimo
    68 High Elven Cleric
    < Guardian Fellowship >

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    I'm the same way when it comes to HoTs. I was with a small guild for a short time and I had to get them used to me using HoTs. After I explained what I was doing, and how quite often a single pull would end with the Tank having taken relatively minimal damage (upper-50's/lower-60's LDoNs) and that the HoT was a much better option than CH would be... expecially after two or three pulls.

    Even now, a good HoT can make the difference between even bothering to CH... much less needing to CH more than once in a fight.

    Protection of Vie is also probably one of my most valuable spells... and I like Mark of Kings too.
    Angelsyn Whitewings, Cleric of Tunare for 65 Seasons.
    Grandmistress Smith - 300, Tailor - 297, Fletcher - 57, Jeweler - 200, Brewer - 200, Baker - 196, Fisherwoman - 165, Potter - 158

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Clerics That have no clue....

    Angelsyn said in post #27 :


    Actually, if you see my Profile, you'll see I do have a few AAs, but I don't have the 9th spell slot.

    I'm not in a Raiding Guild... in fact, the guild I joined seems to be all but broken up now... with very few people (besides me and 1 or 2 others) ever signing on.

    I've done some work in WoS and, given what I've seen there, DivArb would actually be a detriment.. causing low-health aggro if the tank doesn't have really good control, or a lot of aggro on me due to the group healing aggro.

    I'm not saying it's not a useful and powerful ability... especially if you've got a Paladin Tank who can time their own Group Heal right... but right now it seems a bit lower on my list of priorities.
    Actually I'm horrible at reading other people's magelo's. Which is why I said "if you are 61+" and "if you have 9th spell slot" ... it's a dual IF statement. You must have both. If both are true then the THEN part of the statement becomes true.

    Stop. Do NOTHING ELSE until you buy 9th spell slot. Having only 8 slots when you could have 9 is like deliberately NOT memorizing a spell in your last slot.

    Next buy DivA one. No frigging joke. No arguement. No discussion. IF you are 61+ and IF you have 9th slot you MUST BUY DivA one. Right Away.

    Buy 9th slot.
    Buy DivA.

    I cannot make that any clearer.

    When I said "three of the clerics from the top guild on my server told me to do it" I'm not joking.

    Euri
    Merci (as her cleric)
    Korranary

    The weakest of them has 900 aa and raids Demi-Plane of Blood Tier 2 final mobs every night.

    _I_ am not a raiding cleric. (I'll post a magelo later in this post) My guild is the smallest guild in EQ. I'm not joking or overstating. My guild as 22 members in the window. My wife and I on our two accounts are 12 of those. 3 more are the alts of the guild leader, who left for another guild. Of the remaining 7, six haven't logged on for 6 months or more. The last two people who weren't me or my wife or the guild leader to log on quit the guild the moment they logged on. My wife and I can't raid Lower GUK. We'd be lucky to actually use the Howling Stones or Sebilis keys we got.

    Divine Arbritration saves groups. In WoS. In Pick-Up-Groups. With crappy tanks. Every day.

    Well before the double exp weekend I got DivA and was in a WoS pick-up-group. The tank had 8k and we had two bards. Stupid Bard Two pulled two, while Stupid Bard One pulled a Named. We had a necro in the group and a shaman for slowing.

    Bard Two bit it hard trying to mezz. Bard One was below half, the tank was down below 40. Shaman had slow agro and was going down hard.

    DivA. (takes half a second, NO AGRO from heal) My 6k hp and the shamans and the necro's goes to even out the party quite a bit.

    Then I toss Group Heal. Word of Replenishment. Heals, with Imp Heal 4, almost 3k per party member.

    Oops, I've got agro from Named plus un-mezzed add.

    Divine Barrier (gosh, 9th spell slot)

    Now Bard One and the Tank have full HP and no agro, Shaman has full HP and a little agro, Necro even has full hp. And I'm invulnerable. I wait patiently for Bard One to mezz the extra while Tank gains Named agro. Shaman self-heals. Necro lifetaps. I click off DB and resume CH'ing the tank thru the Named plus the two adds.

    Had Bard Two been a little smarter and ran TOWARD THE HEALER my Remedy might have held him alive long enough for him to survive DivA / Group HUG.

    If your have low enough HP that 3k damage from DivA will get you Low-HP-agro you shouldn't be in WoS to begin with. To GET 3k damage from DivA in a group of 6 there needs to be 15,000 hp of original damage. If your tank only has 8k hp in the first place that won't ever happen.

    Nuke/buff/utility
    Mark of Kings
    Mark of Retribution
    Elixir
    CH
    Light
    Remedy
    Word of
    Divine Barrier

    That's the group set up. Add ornate pants, DivA, and a "don't panic" attitude and WoS pick up groups are easy. I've survived without deaths triple pulls with a tank of 7500 hp.

    The real fun is when you hit 70 and get a cubby group. Triple pulls there are rough. Lucky for me my first time the tank had 15k hp.

    I rarely tell people how to play. It's a game and as my EQTraders sig says my path is non-optimal. But it's ESSENTIAL that you buy Mmemonic Retention and Divine Arbitration One the moment you can. You will -never- regret it, and once you have it you will regret not buying it sooner.

    Also it took about a week of them harping on me before I dedicated that 9th slot to Divine Barrier. I'd always been grouped with TheWife and clicking DB was like saying "ok group, i'm out, run for your lives" and the cowards way. I refused utterly to mem it.

    Then I started dying in WoS and beyond in groups with people who's respect I wanted to earn. And I learned that getting Heal Agro at the start of an overpull was ok, so long as I could DB off the agro and give the tanks / CC / slowers time to cope.

    "There are NO bad pulls, only exciting ones." - Euri

    I'm kinda spoiled now, anything less than a double pull seems too slow.

    http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=862924

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